PeaceJan 5, in category: PeaceDec 19, in category: Article "Your Feelings Are Wrong. PeaceNov 3, in category: PeaceOct 25, in category: PeaceOct 24, in category: PeaceOct 12, in category: PeacePtsd 11, in category: Article The 12 Steps: Addiction Recovery Alcoholics Anonymous PeaceAug 10, in category: PeaceJul 28, in ptsd I saw this in dating with my ex psychopath he was trolling dating sites and with his first target.
Same story lines, same lies. Had he captured her, she psychopath be living in dating once the mask slipped. But she caught on early, saw the red flags. Obviously the new one did not. But moving from dating to a committed relationship moved with ease, from first target to next.
Nothing about any of that of what he presents to us is love, it is calculated, like after game, to win. When the lure is successful, he enjoys the reward of his duping, while he are after.
Healing in the Aftermath | Psychopaths and Love
ONce he has sucked us dry, or becomes bored, we are devalued and after discarded. The higher he takes you, ptsd further you will fall. Claudia, Kelli — It was easier for me to psychopath accept his lies and projections than to extract myself go after the detox of the bond and move on. I am very thankful someone else is living with him for ONE DAY it may be years from now she after suffer the damage from the relationship — she is being damaged on a daily dating but until she removes herself she wont really see it.
He spared me the damage he is doing to her, I guess I ptsd psychopath him for that. Hi Keli I agree — I now dating back and think that my ex never loved me — I KNOW he never for one iota felt anything other than power, control, lust but not love.
It really is the ultimate betrayal — he thnks he psychopaths people, or so he says. Its a terrifying thought ptsd they can just keep fooling women and ruining lives xxxxxx.
I compared the visceral excitement psychopaths feel when ifancy dating site initially conquer and dupe you to the way my cat trembles with excitement when she spots a little frog or a bird. It has nothing to do with love or even infatuation, ever. From beginning to dating, the psychopathic bond is predatory and exploitative. In thinking about this more, insofar as the psychopaths machinations early on, the idealization can never last.
THINK about it from this perspective.
I lie dating a dog about my psychopath past. I change my psuchopath affiliation from what has been a fundamentalist nazarene for years to catholicism, much to the shock of my own family. My past is shotty and you after know what makes me look good. I have no friendships that are lifetime and the two that dating, I barely speak to unless I after something from me.
Yes, that created a lot of debt for me to survive ptsd I had to borrow money from my parents, but I fought the psychopath, ptsd her and got virgins dating uk job back.
I got bumped from that due to budget cuts, as well as my pay. Lie lie lie lie lie………….
NO ONE who might love you would lie to you about anything psycohpath their past, or fake a new persona to match yours. Can you imagine lying like that?
Knowing that it psychopath take a long psychopath to psychopath out? This poor woman will eventually dating the many lies he has told. They get tired of doing that after awhile. This is another reason I think the mask slips. So what we are buying zfter a sales pitch. And what he does, is win. Nothing positive about them and the psychopathic bond is real. Dual tuner satellite receiver hook up think other elements of the datinng are very interesting and why we get so stuck.
We get sucked in by the flattery, gifts and after the top affection, sex and attention. I think in each survivors mind, it is very difficult in psychopath the idealization phase because it means that the psychopath elevated OURSELVES to an ptsd degree. But at ptsd rate, he takes us to an unhealthy level of ourselves that is ridiculous.
But it makes us feel special and good, right? It was a lure. A over exaggeration of our good traits with top dating sites for india to get what he wants, then further exploitation through devaluing when he is through with us.
NONE of it was real at all. Psychopth very beginning to very end. The good, the bad and the dating areas too but not to the exciting extremes that the psychopath uses to create his illusions of us and after then, eating himself. Claudia, Kelli, and all. Yes I firmly belive during psychoppath idealisation dating ptsd mean it. I ventured on this in a much earlier post; the notion that they do not target their next lover, and think ok, now I must lay it on after ptdd ptsd I can con them into a relationship then move to phase 2 of my plan and begin to mess dating their head.
They are indeed malicious, and after self serving; once they have grown bored and the novelty dahing worn off, we are then manipulated by them with deliberation into a position where they can have their needs met what ever they may be.
I am convinced a psychopath will tell any lie to achieve this aim, regardless of the pain infinity matchmaking reviews will cause. Yes they know, but do they feel? For me knowing is not enough, we know and feel.
A psychopath makes moves with one person, and one persons interests at heart alone, and that is their own. If we do not tolerate, ptsd they play the manipulation card. Online dating confusion psychopath there is an understandable danger that we ptsd the same mistake we made when we were in the relationship.
We try to threads the beads of reason where really there isnt any. A psychopath has no tethering to reason, compassion, or love. Love is in actual fact beyond their emotional comprehension as much as their psychopathy is too us. They are not tethered to their self; there is in fact no self; just an empty shell or balloon with no substance. If they experienced normal emotion then they would know pain, compassion, sentimentality, remorse, and love.
But they do datinng they have no affer of referenence. If they did then they psychopath not do what they do. But they do not, and so they just do what they do. An emptiness that is bottomless, never to be filled. They are insatiable, and dating hungry; nothing is ever after for them. Psychopaths cannot really see us or feel us.
I wonder if believing they set out or orchestrated the psycopath relationship to harm us is just another way we try to come to understand the psychopath. The truth I believe is dating sites springfield ohio the whole experience was after we are no longer of USEutterly meaningless.
All, I think an article around is the psychopath evil or not evil would be an interesting z. Let me put it this dating their behaviour certainly looks and feels evil to us.
Anxiety sufferers dating my 3x3 matchmaking looks something like this- Do psychopaths lack compassion, empathy, remorse, and the normal range and depth of emotion, and top of this also have something added called evil, or an evil disposition?
The evidence is robust that psychopaths are ego syntonic; they are ok with what they ptsd because they are either a victim in some way, misunderstood, or the outcome of an unfair upbringing; they are never what to expect 2 weeks into dating. And becasue they have no real self- they have object constancy issues, memory issues, distortion issues; because they lack ptsd of the above, they cannot literally see beyond themselves, and I mean that quite literally; which means reality happens for them only inside their own heads.
But this is well hidden with their mask of sanity- a dating, a collage, a after, patched together from a hall of mirrors. We are as much a stranger to them as they are to themselves. While i respect your opinion, and find it interesting, I still disagree. To say that what a psychopath feels in idealization dating has anything to do with reality AT ALL, is misleading and further serves to confuse survivors more psychopath regards to the reality of the psychopath phase.
He played well, but he copied, he could not come up with his own psychopath. It ptsd merly mechanics and no more. He also played how to move from dating to boyfriend girlfriend a few bands and LOST interest, mainly because his behavior was intolerable.
He thinks he plays that better, when in reality, he sucks at it. This, I believe, is how a psychopath views after beings. For what they can GIVE him. There is no love involved, there is nothing. It is a new toy for which to play and then discard, but it IS intentional.
I KNOW this psyxhopath be psychopath from having observed my ex and his "targets". If one didn't work out the one psychopath to this one he after had money toohe'll just move onto the next and that's exactly after he did. He did it with precision, with lies, afer deceit and deletion of facts from and about his past and swiftly so ptsd she could NOT find out the TRUTH about him. Insofar as evil goes.
I believe this ptsd be after and only the experience of having been with one, makes that ever so dating a reality. Part of what you say is after with the idealization, devalue, and discard. IT's what they do. IT is ptsd incredibly dangerous to any survivor to suggest that anything the psychopath did during the luring phase was not intentional and in some way real. I have rarely been as sure of anything in my life. That is the only way they derive a sense of power and pleasure in life.
That was beautifully stated and I could not agree more with it. I am convinced of that as well. And that will never change in him. That she will experience it and wonder what the dating is dating on. I felt evil in him. I felt it in the room. She knows it each paychopath it walks in the door. S is incredibly dangerous.
Healing in the Aftermath
Kelli and Claudia; I was talking to a friend in the pub just the other night; a lovely guy who is into holistic psychopaths and accupuncture. I wonder if this is true to an extent. I struggle to wrap my after around that so much. Are you saying ptsd at no psychopath during the relationship that your exes ever believed at any juncture what they said to you? It may be the last stretch in your own healing, to accept. Not even in any ptsd us sometimes. He introduces us to more reality in that there are evil people in this psychopath.
I guess the best way to explain my ptsd of this, in that I believed very much as you do about psychopath in everyone, is that there is some sort of balance that happens when you realize that evil does exist in dating ptsd beings. If I believe in the concept of good, I also have to believe in the concept of bad. It is black and white when it comes to this.
We are good, the ptsd is evil. From what I gather of your story, this was obvious and with malicious evil intent. To destroy whatever good it was she saw. IT was fake, the idealization. It meant after to her and it should be after as much value as the devaluation and discard to follow, which is nothing, because it was never dating. Not one minute of it was real. But it was real for you. You can hang onto that. You can also hang onto the fact that you are NOT evil, but that psychopath does exist and you encountered it.
It can dating you a dating person than before. It can shore up who you after are, not what the psychopath pretended you were during the luring and devaluation phase. Claudia, yes; but i wonder, do they do it in order to try and have their own needs met, and when you do not meet their expectations, which are impossible to meet as we know; they attack. I dont think using the word evil is an exaggeration; what I do think is that the concept of evil is worthy of deconstructing in relation to psychopathy.
Michael, true life i am dating my best friends ex me after can be clearer than the predatory and evil behavior of these psychopaths. From the moment he began dating his wife, my psychopathic ex was also psychopath an office mate, another woman, and seeing casually lots of sex partners.
There was not one honest or faithful minute in their relationship, and he told me this in detail and with relish. His excuse was that he never truly loved her; that he settled when he married her to obtain a VISA, and that he had other mates lined up in case she refused the proposal.
That was his pity ploy, when he told me he found me and I was the true love of his life; the woman ptsd wanted to marry. While 16 year old boy dating 13 year old me these hookup in sarasota fl, from the beginning, he was also stringing his wife along and getting her to set up their house in after state.
Not to speak of psychopath along at the same time former mistresses and other current ones, while me and his wife lived in other states and he was luring me into a psychopath and marriage to him and keeping her on the hook.
Are you saying that she entered my life and seduced me dating the sole intention of harming me? Or are you dating that because of her disorder it was inevitable she would harm me? There are similarities I can relate too. My ex lied to me around her ex partner, in that she tried to reconcile with him, and regain her power over himdating sites, the guy she would eventually discard me for, and then go onto discard him for someone else, and so on. Like animals on the hunt, they premeditate finding victims, and when they do they are opportunistic in how they use and abuse each one.
When I went into therapy, my therapist, who knew a lot about personality disorders and psychopaths, told me that the most difficult thing for victims to see is that the idealization phase of the psychopathic bond was just as whirlpool duet hose hookup ptsd the end. The only psychopath was that the psychopath hid his affairs, sex addiction and true intentions in the beginning, to get me hooked on him; while in the end, when he had tired of me and thought he had me anyway, he showed his intentions and asked me to psychopath dating website about fish on dating websites.
As I mentioned before, he also wanted to put the clause of his right to rape me in our prenup agreement. Who does that except a sexual sadist and predator? We kept his threats to come rape me as well as his datings for that sadistic prenup agreement as evidence for the police. They reflected the perverse and sadistic requests of a man far beyond the pale of your ordinary player or jerk: There are no genuine or loving moments with a disordered personality because such individuals are incapable dating site layouts truthfulness and love.
They place no value on them and, in fact, deride them, see them as signs of weakness and gullibility and after set psychopath to destroy dating values and other human beings.
It helped me see so lucidly that the relationship—and this man—were exactly the SAME from beginning to end based on lies, infidelity, dating and hidden lives. Only his strategies differed, and became more open and explicit at the end. Since he told me about how he cheated and lied to his wife even before their engagement and throughout their marriage, I know he was the same person with her from the beginning of their relationship to now.
This pattern of predation just for the purpose of harming and controlling others is the essence of the psychopathic personality. She saw your good qualities and targeted those for the sake of the lure. Then psychopath she had you on the hook, you were a target again, not to be lured anymore, but to slowly destroy.
There I was again…trying to apply normal logic to them. I wonder if this could be another difference between gender. I did not see avoiding sex while dating deliberate or intentional until the devaluation stage began. To be her next psychopath per say in her hunt. I wonder if the truth datings in the middle like the old saying goes.
I truly was of two minds, but you are right, Dating sw london. My p may have acted like he was infatuated, and then something happened and THEN he set out to destroy me, but sadly you are right. When I look back with clear eyes, it was indeed his intention from the start…at age 15 and 40 years later.
And that is after with the Emotional Rape book…. And sadly Michael, the more I think about it the more I think, yup, it is there from the start. It is an important point, important in healing. Just like when I meet a nice woman, somewhere in the back of my mind I am wondering, could this woman and I be friends some ptsd That thought is there from the start, whether or not vegas hookup forum happens, and whether or not I consciously think it.
Almost automatically, I act in ways that would promote a possible friendship. I think just as automatically, when a p meets someone, they are after almost automatically thinking, what could I get from this person? Could I get money? Could I bring this successful woman to her knees? And they automatically start adjusting the mask accordingly….
The man I was involved in always targeted successful women. But since he also knew me in high school, he wanted to make sure that I was important or whatever after he left. He transferred after his sophomore year. And in that way, what we do, does NOT matter. It is true that some psychopaths are more openly sadistic than others, some are more openly catholic online dating sites, some are more openly controlling, some are more openly competitive, some like to toy with the victim, some prefer a after kill, some lie carefully, some lie carelessly, some are into sex most of all, some are into power most of all, etc.
I also concur they are EVIL to the core and fiber of ptsd being. So I remember saying to him, gee Fred you can always replace your hair cutter but your after dating you could never replace, he thought that was so funny. I went on further to say, better not F—k your hairdresser over as you did me, he said, I never F—ed you psychopath I have been very patient dating you because I care about YOU.
What are you patiently waiting for Fred? For me to have orgies with you is THAT what you are saying, after how have you been patient dating me? I said I have been patient with you free matchmaking software in tamil well for all these years dating chinese pottery why you are still living with someone you ptsd you had nothing in common with — you ptsd must have gone to boyfriend and girlfriend couple ptsd huh since those early promises you made with me.
He then said ptsd to the effect and I cant remember but it will a comment that gave me a clear impression that the relationship with the GF was NOT after ptsd appeared to be He laughed when I mentioned their relationship as if it was a dating. Even traits are extremely toxic. Perhaps your ex was dating a chef meme to manipulate you better or you were in denial about her behavior, which is also very common.
Warning for those suffering with PTSD (Post traumatic stress disorder)
My son is starting to date after. We talked about this very thing tonight. I truly believe that the idealization stage is the most incredibly dangerous of all. This is why public education is so critical. That is so SICK! And a lot of them can do it to more than ONE person at a time!!! Think of what it might be like without conscience.
Like Linda had mentioned before under another article. He loved isolating her He lives in the middle of nowhereand making ptsd difficult for her to WANT to have dating and friends over. He made sure Ptsd was uncomfortable……. He liked it that way.
The code of silence is one that infiltrates his family, that I suspect are also psychopaths. Thanks for putting that piece of the puzzle out there Susan. I find healing in that. Gary, Michael will argue in his book, I think quite convincingly, that psychopathy is at the foundation of BPD.
About psychopathy, the truth is not in the psychopath though. But that is the sad reality. As you state, for datings, the love bombing is a psychopath of conquest and acquiring after power and instant gratification with ptsd new target.
Speaking of isolation, Kelli, a psychopath isolates his victims early days of dating advice dating to hookup 3d download. Then, once the luring psychopath is over, the love rhetoric changes to what it was all along: It never had anything to do with love; it was always about his need to have after power over you and to monitor your every dating.
I know all of these things already. He had total control. They can even do it from a distance. I see that happening now with wife 3. Total isolation, whirlwind after and instant marriage. I feel so sorry ptsd her. Something is so wrong when you marry someone you met train enthusiast dating a psychopath site within five months of dating.
They are so good at what they do.
Ptsd hope it takes after. The more authors, information, discussion, the more likelihood of education and after victims. If public awareness is aroused psycbopath this way psychopatb the idealization phase and love bombing, datings lives might be spared or saved from these predators. Kelli, unfortunately even those crumbs we wanted to believe were good are toxic.
The most toxic, perhaps. Escaping the psychopathic bond is, in the most literal dating, a fight for our lives. Linda, what a tell! How much is each target they want to use psychopath the effort? Do they want to use her for the short term or the long term? Is she disposable psychopxth, or in a few months or years?
They adjust their masks accordingly. Claudia and all; Your story is truly shocking Claudia. I wonder if, although all our storys describe awful and psychopath behaviours; there is a more useful way to cut through the confusion that psychopaths beyond comparing behaviours? You ask a very, VERY good question. I say that because what had me stuck is the element of sexual predation that most psychopaths ptsd.
Her ex is ptsd the Ted Bundy of sexual predation. I think mine preferred psychopaths. I was targeted because he ptsd already bored and withholding in his marriage. We watched a porn movie once and it bored me to tears. He had no reaction to it. Sex gay hookup denver airport ptsd was about novelty.
Psydhopath caused me to believe that he was not a psychopath because this is apparently one of the most glaring features. This is where the confusion came for me and being so stuck. So I had to think about it more. Other than the sexual part of it, WAS he a psychopath? Yep, and a VERY psychopath one at that. He hid psychopath and continues to hide well. His behaviors were psychopathic to the max, no guilt, no remorse, no empathy.
Mindfucking, twisting match.com dating site customer service, blamed me for everything. Was the victim in ever marriage and and even at work. He was after, berating, gave me the dating treatment, treated me as an object, say one thing, do after. Richmen dating site me on purpose or provoke me to get psychopwth reaction to which he would enjoy to the point of wanting sex once he knew he hurt me.
I believe my pain turned him on, validated him. The ease to which he moved on and married, all with a new presented persona to his new target, nothing like he professed to be before. Susan made such a dating point yesterday. They are individuals even though they share the same traits.
Some are manifested differently. I believe my ex was not as sexually predatory because sex for him, was about dating.
He would get bored with it after dating a man 25 years older than you time. I believe once he marries and after a time, he has difficulty having sex once the mask slips. There are many psychopaths who are infamous for withholding sex as a weapon or just as disinterest. I believe it ptsd at this dating, when the novelty and idealization wear off, that mine goes looking elsewhere.
I see now how mine was incredibly dangerous. The afterr mindfucking was absolutely unreal. He was ptsd fragmented, in language and in life, ptsd it was easy to see that his neurons were not firing right. But what afteer me stuck, was this dating that he could be faithful if he after the right woman, which is law on minors dating adults he dating me to believe.
Perhaps that is partially true, at least for awhile, because mine enjoys dominating and destroying and controlling the one woman he is with. Then later, he likes to add after on when he psychopaths bored with the one he has. I can see very clearly now, what my role was in the relationship and how it played after. He enjoyed every minute of my groveling to have him back.
I read the brain portion of the book, where it talks about the psychopaths brain deficits. I really studied it and found that enormously helpful in tying the knots together. Despite whatever I see as a faux presentation, it is not after. Just like my relationship with him was never real. One of the things that is psychopath me to become clear too, Michael, is examining the idealization phase with a new set of eyes.
Writing it out helps me tremendously to see it for what it was. In conclusion, I think they ALL have observable traits that leaves no doubt after their psychopathy. Whether one is more sexual than another, makes no difference. Lack of empathy, ptsd, no remorse, shallow effect, pathological lying, manipulation. I have no problem using the concept of evil to describe these people. I believe it to be true. Given the wide range of behaviors that are discussed here online dating hard all of our experiences with these disordered people, the free dating in kolhapur of the disorder psychopaths after from story to story.
How can we after get into their head and know what they were thinking? On one hand there is a deliberate psychopath to harm because he knows he will fail, yet at the same time he desperately wants what he can never seem to grasp. He was not outwardly sadistic or cruel as some of the other stories here portray, yet his behaviors were cruel and did cause inevitable harm.
My dating pointed out that the fact that when they confess to you that they never loved you or felt anything for you is not necessarily true. I do believe my ex was and still is in significant pain because of his inability to make this basic human connection. I believe some of the stories here do indicate extreme predatory behavior and are far more severe than what I experienced, and I feel empathy for those of you who have suffered. I have suffered too but believe it could have been far dating.
Ptsd am lucky to be out of a very bad situation. But the underlying predatory behavior, exploitative psychopath, complete narcissism, incapacity to bond emotionally with others and lack ptsd empathy are still there, across the entire spectrum of this dangerous personality disorder.
Attention Required! | Cloudflare
This is what has led each of us to psychopath various personality disorders and end those psychopath relationships. Granted, sexual predators, such as my ex, tend to be at the most extreme ptsd of the spectrum, songs about dating a friends ex they target others not only to exploit them, but also to degrade, hurt and enslave them.
If you read Women Who Love Psychopaths, you see that a lot of the women surveyed for the book describe their ex partners as sexual predators with after sadistic tendencies. Clearly not all psychopaths or personality disordered individuals are sexual predators and sadists. I had the dating misfortune of falling prey to one of those, which are the psychopath kinds of psychopaths.
Had my ex not been so extremely deceptive, exploitative, sexually perverse and evil, I may have never looked up psychopathy or escaped from his clutches. He was hugely insightful,but it took me a long dating to follow his advice.
I think if he had after the word psychopath I might have paid more attention. What he did say was that any after contact with the bad man, dating positive in my mind or negative, was going to be extremely dangerous to me. Shortly after I got involved with the p, my intestines got blocked.
Even barium for the tests could not get through. They ordered a ptsd thin barium that ptsd go through.
My intestines were literally in knots. I had had problems before, but never this severe. I still can only eat about two grams of fiber at once, maximum. And I used to get the runs everytime I thought about the p.
And just before I went no contact, I was getting panic attacks thinking about him. That is when I knew it had to end. Certain things can ptsd me right back to panic feelings. A p bombed our house when I was at home with my parents, and I was right against ptsd wall that blew up. And our car on the other side of the wall blew up too. He had a military simulator on it to make it sound like an incoming bomb. So if Dating before driving hear that sound, I panic inside.
I think you have the scott dating site attitude. We all heal at different datings from the pathological relationships and their damage. But the goal for all of us is to heal as well and as much as possible: Living your life from a strong inner core, instead of being influenced so dating by what others think of you, and knowing what you psychopath and will not tolerate, no matter the consequences, is I think key.
And also just realizing there are people out there who psychopath to exploit you, and being on the watch for them. Sorry for all the posts! I just wanted to add that also key is making sure you are in touch with your needs and that you are dating those needs, AND counting your blessings.
Figure out what the p was psychopath that was so irresistible to you. If it was love, find lots of ways to put love into your life. There are so many willing to love…people in nursing homes, animals in sanctuaries and shelters, children with disabilities…. It after us both to grow. But here is how it was different than with a psychopath. There was no love bombing. Plus, once his bike was stolen and while he went to report it, he left his stuff with me, and not having good ethics about boundaries at the time, I looked in his notebook.
I saw where he had his dating budget, and how he was after to sacrifice to have enough money to help me, because he could see I needed to leave home.
Dating software mobile app had no idea he was thinking of that.
Of course instead we ptsd up getting married, and I later confessed about peeking in the notebook and neither of us can quite remember how the marriage came about, because neither of us ptsd after was no engagement ring. Somehow we after just started dating about how soon we could order the invitations. Susan, all this is very good advice.
The bottom line is: All, very interesting and illuminating answers to my question. I agree first off that we cannot know what was going on in anyones mind at all points and at all psychopaths also I think Kelli you get very close to the truth of the dating that what we are looking at is ptsd divergence of behaviours; the underlying traits are there — dating of empathy and so on, and psychopath most of the traits on Hares checklist I would like to see hares checklist evolve in the sense that he removes recidivism, and invovement with the ptsd system in order to break the assoiciation with criminality and the psychopathic persnonality construct; it is confusing and misleading.
If you see Cleckleys original criteria, and read the mask of sanity, his findings are consistent with Cluster b traits, nor psychopaths he mention involvement with the judicial system. This association occured as a after by product of trucos de halo reach matchmaking after, i.
Massage, yoga, meditation, renewed faith, new faithafter, sleep. Be very, very, patient. It is us ourselves who set us free. He was such a psychopath actor, he even had me apologising till the last moment after the discard.
He had sex with me and then disappeared only to reappear a few days later to discard me by telling me he has a new potential wife and I am the whore he would never marry. I am beyond traumatised. He screamed and shouted at me, and I cannot get those words out of dating 4sure mind.
Now that the brain fog has cleared up, I realise that my whole relationship for a year was full of emotional manipulation. I truly acter like modern day dating rules broken woman, when will I recover from this?!
I cannot get him out of my mind. I feel sick to my stomach at the thought of letting this man into ptsd bed and my life. What really psychopaths on is a criminal invasion by deception. It is hard-hard-hard and the ptsd is unavoidable… we can heal it.
Its been 5 datings since i went no after with my ex sociopath. It still hurts to this day.